This whole discussion came up when we were discussing the merits of trying to use XML socket connections and FL 2.1. Suddenly one of us asked the very good question of how many phones out there actually can do this. The answer is 7 Nokia models on the market in Denmark. We think. And that last thought is the reason for this post...So what is the truth - and why is it so hard to come by?
Here we have tried to compare some different sources of information about FL implementation on different OEM's and different models. As the basis we have used Bill Perrys overview chart, the OEMS (Nokia and Sony Ericsson) webpages and WURFL.
As is plainly obvious there is no truth. If you compare for instance Bills otherwise really cool FL penetration chart with the official Sony Ericsson charts on the webpage there is absolutely no connection between them. And the same goes for every other source of data out there. There seems to be alot of half truths flying about...
And this puzzles me. Because as I see it it's not as if this is state secrets? Or rocket science? It's a fairly limited list of data... And there has to be some Adobe/Nokia/SE databases out there that contain the absolute thruth and it should be possible to deliver this to all of us developers who need this information in the best, most stable manner as possible like a junkie needs a fix.
As I detailed in a previous post penetration is one of the really tough things we have to deal with at the moment - and generating more doubt for us in this area just makes this task of convincing clients to go with an FL solution that much more daunting...
My point being that it's hard enough because of the carriers reluctance to try new things and the OEM's reluctance to help push any one particular technology. This is something that should not have to be an issue. The complete list of exactly what phones that are live today and exactly what FL capabilities they have should be in some database somewhere and we could all benefit from having this one source of data publicly available as it would be very convincing towards our new clients. I am not sure if this is something Adobe would have available - but they should have in my opinion. Maybe I am wrong?
The effect of this is staggering. Or at least could be. As we develop all sorts of cool redirection mechanisms to ensure users get great experiences based on what handset they have we could end up with a user having just bought the brand new Nokia whatever model with FL 3 and all sorts of coolness and he would end up being redirected to a really boring unengaging WAP experience because we do not have access to the most current data and probably will never have unless someone starts sharing this info in an intelligent dynamic way with the world...
So I am hoping we could see some responses to this post from Adobe, Nokia or Sony Ericsson. And if there is a good reason why this is so hard to accomplish I would love to hear it so I can go on ranting about other more constructive stuff :-)
8 comments:
Hi Anders,
The data that you talk off here is expensive to obtain. With that I've only had contact from 1 person asking where they might buy it, thats one person in a community of thousands.
Of course we have access to the data but we only own viewing rights to it. We are not allowed to market with that data under MMetrics terms.
At the moment we are working with Strategy Analytics to produce data that we can release to the developer community. That will take a couple more weeks so expect it along with santa.
Flash Lite opportunities are not Catch 22 based. You can gain success and find customers with limited data, and I've spoken with at least ten developers in the past two days that are willing to do just that.
Steps:
Build a valuable application
Develop for your target market
Inform Adobe and we can help promote
Release using as many paths to market as possible.
You won't likely get data on the above from OEMs so I'd suggest that you target operators or work with aggregator partners of which there are many.
Mark
lol - actually I answered the wrong question didn't I? Sorry, I'm in cuckoo land as they say...
Right so the device data web/pdf/device central. There is a problem and we know that, Bill has clearly mad great efforts to solve that by publishing a pdf thats easy to use.
Of course neither Bill or I get told what devices are coming up. Thats the same for Device Central too.
An example of that is the LG Viewty, its not in any of our databases, pdfs or Device Central. Though you can run content on it and the whole UI is in Flash.
I'm in the airport now on my way to the US. There are plenty of meetings with the right people, so give Bill and I some time to work this out.
Mark
hehe yeah posting from the airport can be tricky - and knowing you, you'd probably gotten to bed to late and gotten up to late as well :-)
- and the funny thing is on your "wrong" answer I completely agree :-) The penetration data is not easily obtained.
And on the "correct" answer i just hope :-) I imagine that you guys sign off the handsets actually produced by the OEMS with FL capabilities before they hit the market? And we don't even ask for advance information. Just correct information - and information that is presented in a usable way, so that we can create the best possible user experiences :-)
I would personally be rather p...... off if I had gotten the new LG Viewty and got presented a crummy WAP page :-)
So am looking forward to hearing from you after your trip to the states :-) And maybe hearing that there is something in the works on this subject :-)
Ciao,
one effort is WURFL, which in time will contain all major OEM with FL enabled phones. At least that's the target!
Alessandro
Ciao Alessandro :-)
We already know and use WURFL - but it is - like any other tool it seems - incomplete. I know it will get better - but at the moment it contains maybe 25% of the Nokia models that support FL and thats just not good enough for a large scale public project imho. And I am certain that this info is in some database somewhere and should be publicly available - no one has anything to gain from not making this public as far as I can see it...
If you check the XLS file i am linking to you will see what i mean?
According to SE FL2.0 developer guide, the following phones are FL2.0:
K850i, K858c
V640i
W910i, W908c
Z750i
This may contradict information in the Phone gallery portion of the SE developer web site. The folks who manage the SE developer site have advised me to consider the information in PDF more accurate and up to date than the Gallery.
Also s500i may be a FL2.0 phone, though the web site states FL1.1. I've not been able to clarify this version.
Hayden Porter
www.aviarts.com
As the guy who created the document referenced in this post I would like to correct one small error: roughly 25% of Nokia models are missing - ie. 75% are present...
Completely agree with you Anders!
We, as developers, are trying to use FL in our developments, but there's no way to make flash lite content for our clients if we do not have the exact information about the different Flash Lite players and the devices.
keep fighting ;)
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